FROM CMOS: Quotations and Dialogue

Q. Can you clarify when a comma should be used before a quote, especially following the word read or said? For example, “Newspaper headlines read, ‘People Are Angry’ and ‘Crime Abounds’” versus “Newspaper headlines read ‘People Are Angry’ and ‘Crime Abounds.’”

A. The use of a comma to introduce a quotation is generally a matter of tradition rather than strict logic. That is, it is optional grammatically, but in most contexts readers expect it to follow said and various other dialogue tags. A comma indicates that the quoted material is seen as syntactically independent from the surrounding text. A quote that is seen more clearly as the direct object of a speaking verb, however, does not need a comma: He wrote “Yes” in large letters.

NOTE: syntactically independent???? Wait, what?

From Webster-dictionary.org: https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/syntactically%20independent#:~:text=Adj.,joking%20apart’%20are%20syntactically%20independent%22: “syntactically_independent” – standing apart from a normal syntactical relation with other sentence elements;”in `joking apart, we need to go now‘ the words `joking apart‘ are syntactically independent“

Thesaurus.net adds: When it comes to writing or speaking, the term “syntactically independent” refers to a phrase or clause that can stand alone as a complete sentence without the need for additional context. 

MORE FROM CMOS

Q. I recently became aware that many sources insist one absolutely must use a comma after “said” to punctuate sentences like this one: She looked up and said, “Hi.” Is this really a universal rule? The more I look into it, the more I feel I’ve slipped into an alternate universe.

A. According to CMOS 13.40, common one-word utterances can usually be introduced without the help of a comma—and without quotation marks or an initial capital:

She looked up and said hi.

We told her no.

Don’t ask me why.

But when such words are presented as direct discourse—as in the dialogue of a novel or story—they are usually placed in quotation marks and set off by a comma, like any other quoted words of dialogue:

She looked up and said, “Hi.”

“Hi,” I replied, a little embarrassed by the echo.

This convention suggests that the word or words in quotation marks were literally spoken as written. But it can be awkward to put the speaker ahead of the quotation. To smooth things out, try reversing the order:

“Hi,” she said, looking up.

For some additional considerations, see “Is a Comma Needed to Introduce Dialogue” in Fiction+ at CMOS Shop Talk.

A QUICK QUIZ

Do you ALWAYS put a comma after (he, she, they) said? Do  you think a comma is needed after “said” in these instances?

So one afternoon—this was about the middle of September 1939—Mr. G. says, Where is—where is Castleton? John Castleton. He looked around. Well, I raised my hand. He said, I want you to stay after the other gentlemen leave.

Yes, there should be a comma after said, “I want you to stay. . . ” needs to stand alone from the rest of the text.

No need for a comma, it’s not a direct quote, “I want you to stay” is the object of He said.

So Mr. G. sent me over to Whitson’s Tool and Supply on West Xth Street. And I went up there, and I talked. I said, I’d like to see the president, Mr. A. 

Yes, there should be a comma after said, it’s a quote.

No, because he says I talked, I said I’d like to see the president. There should be a comma after I talked.

I got a letter from the United States government. It says, You have been selected. I got it from the draft board, of course.

Nope, don’t need a comma. This isn’t a quote or a conversation

Yep, definitely needs a comma. If “says” is used, it’s a quote.

I don’t know why he picked on me, but anyway, I went up to his desk, and he said, Well, there’s a place called Whitson’s Tool and Supply. I know this gentleman very well—the president. He said to send only one person over that he thought would fit the job over here. 

Yes there are two “he said” statements, and the first one is syntactically independent–it needs to stand out.

No, these aren’t direct quotes, Well there’s a place called White Tool and Supply is the object of said.

And I called the draft board, and I said, Well, I got this letter. She says, Yeah, well, that’s a letter. You’re going to be drafted. But I said, Well, how soon? Well, just go ahead and live your life the way you’ve been living. What? Well, we’ll let you know. Well, okay, So I went out. I bought a couple of more suits; I bought some more shoes, and, oh, everything was lovely. 
*

No. Since there’s no “She said” or “I said” at other places, no need for commas. It’s all just a recap of a conversation.

Yes, because when a phrase is prefaced with said or says, it should be followed by a comma.

Now, this—well, this goes right up into 19—the end of 1943 almost, I would say. And I had—let’s see. I was a corporal at that time. They made me a corporal technician because the corporals rating had to stay with the company, but they said, (1) You’ll be a corporal technician, which was okay. I said, (2) I didn’t care. The money’s the same. 

1A. No, because it isn’t syntactically independent if he follows it with which was okay.

1B. Yes, I’m a traditionalist. When you use the word said, follow with a comma.

2A. Yes, because it’s a quote.

2B. It’s not a quote, he’s telling you his reaction. “I didn’t care. The money was the same.”